gumo 28-12-2012 22:53
Greetings.
Does it make sense to use drag sleds when winter hiking in wooded areas? Are they only for walking on crusty snow, or will they also go on loose snow?
There was a related topic before
Green7.62 29-12-2012 12:09
Greetings. Does it make sense to use drag sleds when winter hiking in wooded areas? Are they only for walking on crusty snow, or will they also go on loose snow?
1. Depending on how dense the forest is, if you go through clearings - no problem, if through the forest with rubble - it’s better with one backpack (not every maneuver can be performed with a drag).
2. It depends on how much you load on the drag (this is about powder/crust), but in general, due to the area of the drag, it almost always goes comfortably.
Werewolf_Zarin 29-12-2012 01:36
Stag-beetle 29-12-2012 07:35
quote: Does it make sense to use drag sleds when winter hiking in wooded areas?
Eat.
gumo 29-12-2012 07:43
to Werewolf_Zarin,
Thank you!
Stag-beetle 29-12-2012 07:45
quote: They need a wider belt to make it comfortable.
IMHO, but instead of a belt, it is more convenient to have lines made from a narrow, flat and soft sling, simply thrown over the shoulders through the neck and coming out under the armpits. In this case the work ski poles, when moving, it turns out to be more effective and there is no need for any belts with an intricate fastening system. If you wish, you can tie the lines together with a string on your chest, but this is usually not necessary.
Werewolf_Zarin 29-12-2012 10:34
quote: Originally posted by gumo:
to Werewolf_Zarin,
If it’s not too much trouble, post a photo of the belt you’re currently using.
Thank you!
After NG there is no question)) Yes, the usual wide one. I don't wear shoulder pads, spine
cadmium 29-12-2012 18:50
About 20 years ago, in our translated American oil magazine, I saw a mini-beam sled for a snowmobile. Made of fiberglass, rigid, for overnight accommodation for 2 people. I liked it very much. For expeditions. Then they probably just appeared. The front part of them was lower, the back part with a door and a window was higher. They climbed into them and laid down, apparently, feet first, with their heads towards the door. For the BP, an ideal mobile shelter that can be well insulated and heated economically. I think he can swim if necessary, because... its bottom is like a punt boat. Unfortunately, I have never seen anything like it anywhere else. But it can be towed by a car. And how to use it as a roof rack for a car.
gumo 29-12-2012 21:52
On Russian market Now I see two types of industrially produced drag nets - soft (PVC) and hard (polypropylene?) For loose snow, in my opinion better hard ones. If they are not overloaded, the “failure” will be minimal, therefore it will be easier to pull them.
Werewolf_Zarin 30-12-2012 11:55
Hard ones are better anyway, there’s another funny feature,
I made holes on the sides and threaded a piece of paracord through there, tying the sled tightly to the backpack; when there is a problem area, you just throw the backpack over yourself, and the sled is on it, went and took it out into the snow and dragged it further.
There is only one drawback, as I see it, snow accumulates on the back of the backpack. Although I think if you go far, you can get confused by covering it with a piece of polyethylene or something like that.
taupin 30-12-2012 12:51
Although I think if you go far, you can get confused by covering it with a piece of polyethylene or something like that.
There are capes for backpacks, all possible sizes and colors, put them on and don’t worry.
v0id 30-12-2012 19:04
I use these, the first time I took them was on hunting skis without sticks, I'm fucking tired of dragging them! It’s just a small hill, and you stand still, like on a treadmill... so at least one pole is required. Another subtlety - the sled travels along your ski track and rolls from one ski track to another... it happens that one edge falls into the ski track, and the sled safely turns over, so you need to distribute the weight correctly and be sure to bandage all the luggage. And make the rope longer, otherwise the sleigh will be on its heels, i.e. skis to step on.
p.s. As for wooded areas. It is in the scavenger forest that it is simply unrealistic to maneuver with them. It’s hard to climb on skis, and then there’s the sled... But in a sparse forest, in principle, it’s possible.
Konstantin12 30-12-2012 20:01
quote: Originally posted by v0id:
be sure to bandage all luggage
That's right. I drilled holes in the top edges of the sides and made a criss-cross wrap of cord to tie the load. The center of gravity of the load should be as low as possible.
quote: But in a sparse forest, it’s basically possible.
I only walk with them along clearings and abandoned roads, it’s impossible in the forest, “they don’t go where they need to go,” the rope gets caught, it’s a total mess. I think that if you need to deliver a load weighing no more than 40 kg, it’s better to take it a good running backpack with an orthopedic suspension.
Stag-beetle 31-12-2012 16:00
quote: just a small hill, and you stand still,
in fact, the load should be distributed: half in the backpack, the other half in the sled. Then you won't slip. However, the tactics and features of moving over rough terrain with cargo sleds (sleds) were worked out by tourists a long time ago. By the way, complex sports trips without a sled are sometimes impossible. They significantly reduce physical activity.
Konstantin12 31-12-2012 16:08
quote: Originally posted by Stag-beetle:
Complex sports trips without a sled are sometimes impossible. They significantly reduce physical activity.
quote: Originally posted by Konstantin12:
I think that if you need to deliver cargo weighing no more than 40 kg, it’s better to take a good running backpack with an orthopedic suspension.
I don’t know what’s more of a burden - dragging a backpack through fresh snowy “virgin lands”, or toiling around with a sled stuck in this “virgin lands”? Well, on the ice of a frozen river/lake, here the sleds are beyond competition, or in the tundra. in a mountainous and forested area where there is no route laid out in advance, I think it’s better without them, though.
gumo 31-12-2012 17:22
Practical men, I didn’t understand much. Do you load the drags “from the heart” - they go more stable, but on the “powder” they get stuck and go hard? If you load without fanaticism, they fall through the powder less, they go easier, but they start to get thrown around on the track and turn over?
Did I draw the right conclusions?
Konstantin12 31-12-2012 19:29
quote: Originally posted by gumo:
You load the drags “from the heart”
quote: Originally posted by gumo:
Load without fanaticism
In my photo, the backpack that I was carrying on the sled weighed 48 kg. The 7 km that I walked to the place with the sled, I would have walked faster with the backpack on my back, but my back would most likely have been tired and could have responded to such “carelessness.” If “without fanaticism,” as you write, it might be better to load a sled without a sled? Especially if you are a little old and have no health problems. As I noted earlier, my opinion is that sleds are not for the forest. In the end In the end, it’s better to take breaks more often and take off your backpack, giving your back a rest, than to swear, suffering with the slowing sled.
Troglodytes 01-01-2013 11:55
“Practical men, I don’t understand much. Do you load the drags “from the heart” - they go more stable, but on the “powder” they get stuck, they go hard? You load without fanaticism - they fail less in the “powder”, they go easier, but they start to be thrown on the ski track, turn over?
Did I draw the right conclusions?"
The conclusions are correct = this is physics. But in my opinion, drags are needed if the load is heavy, and if the sled is not loaded, then they are not needed. In general, it’s hard without a sled in winter, because if there are two or one porters, then it’s hard to carry a tent, sleeping bags, stoves, benches! And in powdery conditions, the sled shouldn’t nod off, so it needs to be loaded correctly and secured to you as high as possible, like not to the belt, but to the shoulders...
Konstantin12 01-01-2013 13:08
If there are a couple of porters or one, then it’s hard to carry a tent, sleeping bags, stoves and benches!
That’s right. I myself constantly go alone, I gradually came to the idea that “just hiking” is too hard entertainment for a single person. Therefore, I somewhat changed the goals of my stay in the taiga. I go light, find an interesting, “strong” Place, then drag myself there
quote: tent, sleeping bags, stoves - benches,
And there I begin to “survive” - with a feeling of “deep moral satisfaction.”)
Harding 18-01-2013 11:04
HUMMELschmel 21-01-2013 19:04
quote: Originally posted by Werewolf_Zarin:
I use these, I don’t climb in the bushes, but I do a lot of poaching. The plastic is good and doesn’t break in the cold, they need a wider belt, it’s comfortable with it.
http://saint-petersburg.irr.ru...t237857789.html
Dragging is easier than carrying. But he killed the drags in one exit. Wire on the ice, they rubbed the guide runners - Volokushi Ladoga 2. The material is polyethylene - is it possible to somehow reanimate them. Is it better to somehow modify the new ones - make blades for them?
HUMMELschmel 21-01-2013 19:18
quote: Originally posted by Troglodytes:
The conclusions are correct = this is physics. But in my opinion, drags are needed if the load is heavy, and if the sled is not loaded, then they are not needed. In general, without a sleigh in winter it’s hard, because if there are two or one porters, then it’s hard to carry a tent, sleeping bags, stoves and benches! And in powdery conditions, the sled should not nod off, so it must be loaded correctly and attached to you as high as possible, such as not to the belt, but to the shoulders...
the center of gravity must be maintained. I felt the load on the belt, that is, if it were higher between the belt and the shoulder blades, it would be easier. Like the systems from the movie "The Day After Tomorrow"
Lev007 22-01-2013 10:26
quote: Dragging is easier than carrying. But he killed the drags in one exit. Wire on the ice, they rubbed the guide runners - Volokushi Ladoga 2. The material is polyethylene - is it possible to somehow reanimate them. Is it better to somehow modify the new ones - make blades for them?
All snowmobile sleds are being modernized.
Several strips of aluminum or thick polyethylene or propylene are attached to the bottom.
To do this, large diameter pipes are cut.
Plastic is very fragile in the cold...
What are bays? How are Norwegian skates different from figure skates? What specific equipment is needed for a multi-day trip on the ice of Lake Baikal? We speak from our own experience winter hikes Ice skating along Lake Baikal.
In 2018, a team of AlpIndustry employees will go ice skating around Lake Baikal for the third time. This journey is unlike anything else, and the enthusiasm of those who once visited the ice of this lake in winter quickly switches to others, covering more and more people.
Video from the AlpIndustry team's ice skating trip around Lake Baikal in 2016. Filming and editing by our friend Viktor Dubitsky.
Long travel skates
What are bays
And if everything is more or less clear with clothing and bivouac equipment for a winter hike, the key question remains what can be used to cover 20-50+ kilometers a day on frozen ice. The answer is on long skates, which are also called Norwegian skates, nordic skates and baises (a specific name common in Siberia).
Long, unusual-looking skates, created specifically for skating on lakes, rivers, canals and bays - in general, anywhere where ice can be found and long distances - have nothing in common, either in terms of appearance and dimensions, nor in terms of purpose and style of movement, with figure or hockey skates.
Last year we had long skates with the simplest configuration: blades with plastic straps that go around a regular hiking boot.
Installed on nordic sckate ski bindings type SNS, and high is used ski boot For skating(with plastic support in the ankle area). The bindings are not included with long skates: you can use fastenings from your existing supplies, if you have them, or purchase the fastenings separately; suitable ones can be found in AlpIndustry:
- Salomon SNS Pilot Sport Classic Cross Country Ski Bindings
- Salomon SNS Pilot Equipe Skate Cross Country Ski Bindings
Long skates in AlpIndustry
This season, inspired by our own experience of ice travel, we ordered a nordic skate for the first time for AlpIndustry - now there is no need to worry about finding “normal” Norwegian skates or constructing analogues from improvised means.
For sale in AlpIndustry and for our own hikes, taking into account previous experience, we chose long Nordic skates “Husky” from the Russian manufacturer Baikal Ice. And this is a big plus. The Irkutsk company has been producing baits since 2014 and creates equipment specifically for Baikal ice.
Nordic skates "Husky" tests in the Moscow region
As testers:
- Vitya Savelyev- organizer of five ice skating trips around Lake Baikal and many skating excursions on the frozen reservoirs of Moscow and the Moscow region, director of the Petzl trade department.
- Alexey Sashov- experienced tourist, leader of difficult mountain and ski trips, head of the commercial department.
- Pyotr Bezruchko— participant in ice skating trips around Lake Baikal, marketing manager.
By the way, to just ride or go on a full-fledged hike on long skates, you don’t have to immediately go to Baikal. Even in the Moscow region in winter there are enough places for such outings, for example, the Ozerninskoye Reservoir.
You just need to remember about safety, relying on your own common sense, weather forecasts from various sources and reliable communications.
If you want to test yourself and get an incomparable experience from a skating trip around Lake Baikal, but are not ready to organize it yourself or doubt your experience, join the trips of our AlpIndustry Tour team and entrust organizational issues and the route to the manager and an experienced guide. We've been going for more than one season.
Special equipment for hiking on long skates
Sticks
The ideal pole option for multi-day nordic skate hikes is roller ski poles. You can also install tips from roller ski poles on cross-country ski poles. Compared to conventional roller skis, carbide tips have a sharper sharpening angle, which allows them to confidently rest on even the hardest ice. From experience, there were no problems with regular ski poles. Whatever you decide on, it is advisable that the sticks are made of aluminum.
But trekking poles - folding or telescopic - are not suitable for nordic skate riding. Their flat tip is guaranteed to slip when moving.
Sleigh-drag
What should you wear to carry your equipment during a multi-day, multi-kilometer journey on ice? And this is not only spare clothes, shoes for the camp and a thermos with hot tea, but also tents, sleeping mats, sleeping bags, food and everything necessary for preparing it in hiking conditions. In such a situation, a backpack completely kills the very idea of skating quickly - with such a burden on your shoulders you won’t be able to accelerate, and you’ll get tired quickly.
The ideal option for an ice trek is a drag sled, i.e. those in which you put a large hiking backpack, and which stretch, “drag” behind you on the ice, attached to you using a cord, which, if desired, can be supplemented with a shock-absorbing elastic band.
The drags are made of durable plastic that retains its elasticity at temperatures down to -50°C. This design is not afraid of impacts from trees, stones and hummocks. The load in the sled, if you move on wet ice, remains dry.
At the bottom of these plastic sleds there are two distinct runners, allowing them to slide over snow or crust with minimal friction. You can load approximately 35 kilograms of equipment into the drags. If necessary, the sled can be easily attached to a backpack for transportation.
Rescue awls (“Self-rescuers”)
This is a plastic device that looks like a jump rope, with metal pins hidden in the handles. The “self-rescue bag” is worn around the neck, and if you fall into a crack, in most cases you will have time to grab its handles and plunge the metal pins into the ice, grab onto it and climb out, moving along the ice (even thin) on your stomach. You can choose any, the simplest ones, on the Internet, without bothering.
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For clarity, Vitya Savelyev demonstrated himself falling into an ice hole and being saved, and Viktor Dubitsky filmed the process.
Protection
Mandatory (!!!) equipment for traveling on ice and even “just cruising” for a few hours. The first thing that will suffer if you fall on hard ice - and even the most experienced participants are not immune from falling - are your knees, butt and hips (we advise you not to neglect protective shorts - a thing!), wrists and elbows, head.
Any ski protection or protection designed for roller skating will do. For example, Dainese (Italy). A mountaineering helmet or ski helmet is suitable to protect your head. We once collectively found ourselves on Lake Baikal wearing Petzl Meteor helmets - reliable.
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If you feel too confident on the ice to deign to wear full head-to-toe gear, or don't want to wear protective gear for any other reason, we strongly encourage you to at least invest in knee pads. It has been tested, the knees get the most, and it hurts.
PS
As for clothing and bivouac equipment for skating, their choice depends on the specific conditions. For example, for Baikal in February-March, when the night temperature drops to -20C°, pay special attention to a suitable sleeping bag, an impressive down jacket and warm shoes for dinner and evening gatherings. For daytime treks, when the temperature rises, and you are constantly moving energetically, you need a high-quality membrane jacket (or at least a windproof one with ventilation under the arms) so as not to get welded along the way, and sunglasses or a mask that will protect your eyes from the bright sun, wind and possible snow.
And one more piece of advice. Whether it’s a multi-day hike around Olkhon or an outing to the nearest reservoir, take a thermos with hot tea and a couple of chocolates on your outings - these simple things, after a couple of hours of actively pushing with your feet and waving sticks, seem like something unearthly and after a couple of minutes of respite they charge you with strength for a new one part of the way :)
Lecture by Viktor Savelyev about organizing trips on the ice of Lake Baikal
Photos of Rinat Bikbulatov and Natalia Ovchar from hikes along Lake Baikal in 2016 and 2017. a team of AlpIndustry employees.
Gear Reviews
In the first part of the article, we discussed with you the selection and preparation of equipment for ski tourism. Boots, socks, bindings, the skis and poles themselves, additional accessories have already been mentioned. But this is not enough for difficult winter hikes. For long treks across snowy plains, you need something more suitable than a backpack. Modern backpacks are good for everyone, but carrying a load on yourself is more difficult than carrying it along. So, in the second part of the article we will tell you about drag sleighs, which are an integral attribute of ski expeditions.
Modern industry offers many options. Inflatable cheesecakes of various shapes, plastic troughs of various volumes. The first roads are not always convenient to use, so we will consider the second option. Quite recently, the AlpIndustriya chain of stores put on sale sleds with the romantic name “Arctic”. Essentially, this is a plastic trough made of light and durable plastic, which the buyer can modify independently in accordance with his requirements. These are exactly the sleds that were purchased and prepared by the author.
We offer the easiest way to modify your sled. We drill holes along the entire top side. They are needed to insert the cord and secure luggage or attach the sled to the backpack. It is more convenient to do this using the lacing method. And it is better to use two shorter cords than one long one. We start with careful measurements and markings. “Measure twice, cut once.”
But how can you pull the drags behind you? Let's consider soft hitch. Drill two holes in the front wall of the sled. A rope with a diameter of 8 mm is suitable as a power rope. But we don’t just push it through the holes, we encircle the sleigh around the perimeter. The rope will be secured by the previously threaded cord. Thus, the main load falls on the entire frame of the sled, and not on the front wall. Accordingly, the risk of breaking the drags is reduced. This method of transportation was successfully tested by the author on a hike.
The luggage was secured and the rope was threaded. But how to pull? So, you need a harness. As such, you can use a universal gazebo. The author chose for himself Petzl Pandion With wide range adjustments and top hinge. Well, then it’s a matter of taste. You can tie a rope into a loop, or you can use one D-shaped carabiner or two “ovals”. It is advisable to use carabiners with mechanical couplings, because “automatic machines” can fail in difficult winter conditions.
Of course, this is far from the only way to prepare a sled. The cord can be replaced with slings. For greater convenience, you can use plastic fastex. But these solutions will require more time and money. The purpose of this article was to present the simplest and, at the same time, reliable way to prepare a drag sled for a ski trip. We hope that our advice will be useful to you.
Winter is not over yet. In order to go to ski trip We have a whole month left. We wish you new adventures!!!
